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Fri, 17 Nov 89 01:31:56 -0500 (EST)
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From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU
To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 89 01:31:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: SPACE Digest V10 #255
SPACE Digest Volume 10 : Issue 255
Today's Topics:
Re: EJASA, November 1989 - Volume 1, Number 4
Re: Looking for US launcher family tree
Mars space elevator
Re: HST Resolving power
"rec.models.rockets" PASSES with 180 margin - 196 YES to 16 NO!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 14 Nov 89 15:32:56 GMT
From: bpa!asi!discg1!isc0003@rutgers.edu (John L. Guy)
Subject: Re: EJASA, November 1989 - Volume 1, Number 4
It would really be appreciated if this journal included some information
about the authors of the articles. Are they interested amateurs or do they
have credentials which show them to be authorities. Either case is acceptable,
but the information really should be included. I've never seen a journal that
did not include this type of info. Just a suggestion.
Date: 15 Nov 89 21:34:27 GMT
From: mailrus!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo!henry@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Looking for US launcher family tree
In article <424@intelisc.nosun.UUCP> snidely@intelisc.UUCP (David Schneider) writes:
>I've been meaning to ask if anyone can point me at a convenient
>family tree of US launchers, primarily the liquid-fueled variety.
Well, here's a first cut. There is actually not all that much branching
in the tree. I'm ignoring assorted trivia like sounding rockets.
Redstone, a tactical ballistic missile, with three small solid upper stages
became Jupiter-C and launched Explorer 1 and some others. (The "Jupiter-C"
terminology is because it was testing components for the Jupiter program,
and von Braun & Co. noticed that things marked "Jupiter" got higher priority
at the Cape than things marked "Redstone".)
Jupiter, an Army IRBM, acquired an upper stage or two and became the Juno
family of space launchers, which saw a little bit of use. Don't know much
about it. Long extinct.
Atlas, the first US ICBM, was used as a launcher all by itself for modest
low-orbit payloads, including Mercury. With the addition of the first US
liquid-hydrogen stage, the Centaur, it saw heavy use for low orbit, high
orbit, and planetary missions. Numerous variants have appeared over the
years, with a steady trend to longer tanks and hotter engines. An earlier
upper stage, the Agena, also saw use for modest planetary missions and
satellites, notably military ones, and was used for a docking target on
Gemini.
Titan II, the second Titan ICBM (Titan I, despite the similar name, was
an entirely different missile), also has seen use in various forms.
One variant of it (slightly longer tanks than the ICBM, I think) launched
Gemini. Both alone and with upper stages (notably Agena), it launched
quite a few missions. The last Titan-Agena flew only a few months ago.
Now that the Titan II ICBM force has finally been retired, the USAF is
reworking a bunch of them into medium launchers.
Titan III is a Titan II with two great big solid strap-ons. There were
a number of different versions, notably IIIC (general heavy-load USAF
booster), IIIM (meant to launch the cancelled MOL military space station),
34D (slightly upgraded IIIC), and IV (latest variant, longer SRBs and
other small improvements). Current US heavy expendable. Various upper
stages, notably Transtage (small liquid stage) and Centaur, were used.
Titan-Centaur was used for Voyager, among other things. The latest
versions now fly with the shuttle IUS or the intended-for-shuttle fat-
tank Centaur as an upper stage.
The USAF's Thor IRBM (which used some Atlas technology, notably engines)
was turned into a small launcher with the addition of a modest upper
stage. This went through a whole bunch of steadily-bigger versions,
with tanks getting longer and fatter, engines getting hotter, and solid
strapons (first 3, then 6, now 9, and they're getting longer and fatter
too) added. Somewhere along the way it was renamed Delta. The Japanese
H-1 is a Delta spinoff, incidentally, with a new liquid-hydrogen upper
stage (which McDonnell Douglas would like to buy back except it's not
for sale).
The Scout is practically the only one of the bunch that isn't a missile
derivative. Scout is four big sounding rockets piled up to make a very
small satellite launcher. It too has grown a little bit over time.
There were a vast number of proposed Saturn configurations, only three
of which ever became real.
The Saturn I had a first stage which was a massive cluster of Atlas/Thor
engines and Atlas and Redstone tankage, plus a small upper stage that
was sort of a fat Centaur with more engines. It was basically a dead
end, in retrospect of no importance except for technology development
for later Saturns.
The Saturn IB used a stretched souped-up Saturn I first stage, plus
the big S-IVB liquid-hydrogen upper stage of the Saturn V, for low-orbit
Apollo launches and some other odds and ends.
The Saturn V, despite the similarity in name, had nothing to do with the
Saturn I. Three all-new stages with all-new engines. Intended for
Apollo lunar missions, lunar bases, space stations, heavy planetary
probes, etc etc. 15 built; 13 used, 2 rusting lawn ornaments.
The Shuttle is another all-new launcher. Its SRBs are somewhat similar
to the Titan ones, but many details are different and they are bigger.
--
A bit of tolerance is worth a | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
megabyte of flaming. | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 89 19:10:38 EST
From: John Roberts
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are those of the sender
and do not reflect NIST policy or agreement.
Subject: Mars space elevator
>From: mailrus!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo!henry@purdue.edu (Henry Spencer)
>Subject: Re: More about a spacial lift
>In article UDOC140@FRORS31.BITNET writes:
>>Now my point was not only an Earth lift, but also a Moon one. That
>>one has several advantages...
>And one large disadvantage: very, very slow rotation. Remember, it's
>centrifugal force that holds the thing up. What you want is low gravity
>and fast rotation. Mars is a much better place for a space elevator
>than the Moon.
Mars has one large disadvantage too: the moon Phobos orbits within the bounds
of its synchronous orbit. I don't think there's any point along Mars' equator
that Phobos doesn't eventually pass over, which would certainly affect the
performance of the space elevator! :-) This problem was discussed in Fountains
of Paradise by Arthur C. Clarke. The proposed solution was to set up a
carefully-controlled vibration in the elevator, which would cause it to
move out of the way as Phobos passed by.
John Roberts
roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov
------------------------------
Date: 16 Nov 89 01:26:39 GMT
From: psuvm!mrw104@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu
Subject: Re: HST Resolving power
No, that means we can't resolve any surface features on Pluto. We will probably
be able to split the Pluto/Charon system and see them both as seperate points,
and if we get lucky and the HST lasts until the next Pluto/Charon occultation
series, we could use light-curve information to map Pluto. Check out the
October edition of Sky&Telescope- I think they talked about it there.
*****************************************************************************
Mike Williams
mrw104@psuvm.bitnet
------------------------------
Date: 16 Nov 89 18:07:01 GMT
From: announce-moderator@handies.ucar.edu (R. M. Jungclas)
Subject: "rec.models.rockets" PASSES with 180 margin - 196 YES to 16 NO!
MANY THANKS TO THOSE WHO VOTED. An attempt was made to individually
acknowledge each vote. A few of these were bounced back and I gave up
after the second try.
The voting period for the creation of "rec.models.rockets"
ended at midnight (24:00) November 15th. A total of 212 valid votes,
196 YES (92.5%) and 16 NO (7.5%) votes were received within the
specified time frame. (12.3 YES votes were received for each
NO vote.) With a margin of 180 votes, the proposal easily
PASSES indicating that "rec.models.rockets" should be created.
A total of 5 INVALID VOTES, 4 YES and 1 NO, were also received
and these are explained below. The list of voters is given below.
>AFTER the vote result is posted, there will be a 5 day waiting
>period during which the net will have a chance to correct any
>errors in the voter list or the voting procedure.
Since I'll be offsite from Nov 18 thru Nov 26, I will not take action
to have the formal newgroup request sent out until November 27th.
Please inform me of any irregularities/comments that you spot by then.
COMMENTS: I am surprised on the size of vote turnout. I had expected
a more marginal victory. The 100 vote margin was obtained on the 7th
day of voting. The vote was taken under the OLD guidelines (30
day voting period.) (The vote was 187 YES and 15 NO after 21 days.)
A comparison between this attempt and other new newsgroup attempts
is given below.
Only one vote was counted per email address (ie. duplicates & proxy
votes were removed). As it turned out this applied only to YES votes.
24 (20 YES and 4 NO) votes were received before the official start of
the vote (midnight (24:00) Oct 16th). These votes were NOT included
in the above totals, but email was sent to EVERY voter and asked to
re-vote. All but 3 voters (2 YES and 1 NO) recast their votes. The
original call for votes just specified "midnight Oct 16th." There
apparently was some confusion of whether midnight means 00:00+ Oct.
16th or 24:00- Oct 16th which I subsquently cleared up with later
calls for votes. Webster's dictionary defines midnight as "12 o'clock
at night" which is the meaning that I intended. The votes that were
not included should be an issue since they help to establish a greater
YES margin.
One person changed his vote from NO to YES, but the YES vote
was disallowed as it wasn't explicit enough. (Ie. empty email
body, subject line just contained "YES" and there was no references
to any newsgroups.) The net result is the NO vote is still included
in the total above. Mail was sent to this individual asking him
if he really intended to change his vote and informing him of his
invalidated YES vote. No reply was received by the voting deadline.
One YES vote was relayed through another login as the voter could
NOT get mail directly through to me. Although this relayed mail
clearly contained the voter's mail, the YES vote was INVALIDATED
because it could be considered as a "proxy" vote. However, I did
send mail to this voter and he was able to return mail by the
deadline, so a valid YES vote was received.
AVERAGE 273.7 47.2 12.9
SCREENED AVERAGE 193.4 22.5 11.2
rec.models.rockets 196 16 12.3
The SCREENED AVERAGE was the average for all of these minus
the sci.aquaria and comp.object statistics. Both of these newsgroups
due to the extremely large vote turnout bias the overall AVERAGE.
Voter turnout on rec.models.rockets (212) was slightly less than the
screened average (215.9) but had a more favorable (YES) response
(12.3) than the screened average (11.2) and slightly less
than the overall ratio (12.9).
================== Voter List =================================
The voting list is arranged by NO, YES and INVALID votes and then
alphabetically by last name. When no name is available, my best shot
(ie person's login id etc.) is given between question marks. Email
addresses are reported directly as they appear from our mail header.
16 NO votes:
?tower?, Len tower@bu-it.BU.EDU
Berryhill, John berryh@udel.edu
Borchard, Otmar otmar%hpcvia@hplabs.hp.com
Carpenter, Jeffrey James jjc@unix.cis.pitt.edu
Hsu, Jeffrey unisoft!hsu@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU
Jones, Llewellyn att!ll1a!cej
Matthews, Brian uw-beaver!6sigma!blm
Miller, Richard H. rick@pavlov.bcm.tmc.edu
PICKERING, JIM gatech!ucsd!sdsu!rducky!jrp@cwjcc.INS.CWRU.Edu
Ramsey, Tim tar@ksuvax1.cis.ksu.edu
Roche, Jim roche@cs.rochester.edu
Salz, Rich rsalz@BBN.COM
Tuel, Cliff ctuel@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU
Vogel, Phillip M. phillip@bartal.crlabs.com
welty, richard welty@lewis.crd.ge.com
Wilcoxon, Scot E sewilco@datapg.MN.ORG
196 YES votes:
?bak?, Peter microsoft!peterbak@beaver.cs.washington.edu
?cobb?, Jim jcobb%pixel@cs.utah.edu
?debolt? debolt@cgl.ucsf.EDU
?evan? plx!koosh!evan@Sun.COM
?gordo? gordo@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
?ha?, Mark microsoft!markha@uunet.uu.net
?jhm? jhm@EBay.Sun.COM
?jpm? att!bcr!rruxi!jpm
?mmm? portal!cup.portal.com!mmm@Sun.COM
?preacher?, iuvax!mailrus!sharkey!lopez!preacher
?reith? reith@destop.enet.dec.com
?smith? sequent!aero!smith@aerospace.aero.org
?tyler? tyler@raven1.enet.dec.com
?ummouss2? ummouss2@ccu.UManitoba.CA
Albrecht, Tom tom@dvnspc1.DEV.UNISYS.COM
Allen, Bruce balen@pnet01.cts.com
Allendorf, Scott Scott.Allendorf@CERES.Physics.UIowa.Edu
Ames, Bob root@rush.cts.com
Anderson, Joel P. att!ncr-sd!ncrlnk!ncrcce!ncrcce.StPaul.NCR.COM!anderson
Antonelli, Charles J. cja@ifs.umich.edu
Arms, Mike sandia!marms@unmvax.cs.unm.edu
Armstron, Ann pyuxd!ald
Arras, Michael arras@icase.edu
Baker, Jon gtephx!bakerj
Baldi, J. A. att!bcr!pyuxf!jab
Batinic, Ivan sun!megatest!soleil.ivan
beach, thomas e txxb%alpha@LANL.GOV
Berezowski, Dave cbmvax.commodore.com!daveb
Bodenstab, Steven R srb@homxb.att.com
Bonsna, J. R. att!bcr!pyuxf!jrb1
Bowen, Devon E bowen@cs.Buffalo.EDU
Bromberger, Jeffrey L jeffrey@sci.ccny.cuny.edu
Brougham, Chris broug@sloth.wimsey.bc.ca
Burgress, David burgess@hpspkld.hp.com
Caldwell, Doug doug@CS.UCLA.EDU
Carothers, Kevin kevin@ttidca.TTI.COM
Carreiro, Rich rlcarr@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Carson, Bill pixar!brighton@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU
Charette, Mark mark@mtfuji.eds.com
Chesney, Todd gtephx!chesneyt
Cisneros, Manuel A. sun!macs
Cobbley, David ogccse!gssc!davec@rutgers.edu
Collins, Joe joec@Morgan.COM
Comitos, Eleni att!bcr!pyuxf!dec
Cook, Dale C. cook@pinocchio.encore.com
Coslet, R. Tim portal!cup.portal.com!R_Tim_Coslet@Sun.COM
Cotton, Eric cbmvax.commodore.com!eric
Coulter, Roy wizard@sunspot.noao.edu
Crandall, E. S. att!mhuxo!evans
Cross, Matthew E profesor@wpi.wpi.edu
Cugnini, Aldo G. agc@philabs.Philips.Com
Daly, Brian asuvax!gtephx!dalyb@ncar.UCAR.EDU
Desai, Rajiv desai@robotics.jpl.nasa.gov
Dietz, Paul F. dietz@cs.rochester.edu
Dreghorn, Allan att!bcr!pyuxf!alland
Ehrmantraut, Brian auspex!bae@uunet.UU.NET
Eisman, David Oliver ollie%hydra.unm.edu@ariel.unm.edu
Eliot, Chris ELIOT@cs.umass.EDU
Elliott, James elliott@cs.wisc.edu
Erickson, Leonard cse.ogc.edu!leonard
Faltersack, Rick rickf%callao.wv.tek.com@RELAY.CS.NET
Fenwick, Steve uunet!uunet!ingr!apd!fenwick
Fink, Kevin kfink@jarthur.Claremont.edu
Flis, Jim flis@tuner.enet.dec.com
Fortuna, Mike linus!fortuna%Alliant.COM
Freitas, Dan freeptos@mips.com
Gardner, Mike gardner@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
Genemans, Jan K. genemans@eleazar.dartmouth.edu
Glover, Jeff C. jeffg%loki.wv.tek.com@RELAY.CS.NET
Gluckman, Howard uswat!reuse!hwg
Goedde, C. P. att!bcr!pyuxf!cpg
Graham, Glenn sun!nosun.West.Sun.COM!analogy!glenng
Gross, David dgross@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU
Haber, Andy andyh%hcxio@uunet.UU.NET
Hackney, Greg texbell!tness1!mechjgh
Hage, Frank fhage@med.unc.edu
Hamzeh, Kory uunet!avatar!kory
Harper, John harper@manitou.astro.utoronto.ca
Hassell, Christopher hassell@tramp.Colorado.EDU
Heath, Shaun ccastsh%prism@gatech.edu
Hellmers, J. P. att!bcr!pyuxd!jph
Hellmers, Lynne att!bcr!pyuxf!lmh2
Hendrickson, Eric D. eric@ux.acss.umn.edu
Hernan, Shawn V. valentin@unix.cis.pitt.edu
Herr, Jim gtephx!herrj
Heston, Gary gary@sci34hub.sci.com
Hetzel Jr., Alan Dorn fabscal!dorn@gatech.edu
Howard, Don howard@wsqtb2.crd.ge.com
Huang, Michael mhuang@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU
Hudler, Jack jack@csccat.UUCP
Hughes, Gary hughes@star.enet.dec.com
Hylbert, Ken HYLBKL%MOREKYPR.BITNET@CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu
Hyman, Ed att!bcr!pyuxf!hym1
Jasinskyj, Lonhyn T. lonhyn@sun252.nas.nasa.gov
JOHNSON, RICHARD J johnsonr@spot.Colorado.EDU
Jones, Clark jones@sj.ate.slb.com
Jones, Kyle talos!kjones@uunet.UU.NET
Joseph, John jljoseph@ladc.bull.com
Jungclas, Jeff decwrl!hpscad.enet!jungclas
Jungclas, Richard Michael att!ihlpb!rjungcla
Kaplow, Bob kaplow@pobox.enet.dec.com
Kazdan, David dkazdan@cwsys2.CWRU.EDU
Keane, Joe jk3k+@andrew.cmu.edu
Kehoe, Dan dwk%hardy@uunet.UU.NET
Kelley, Robert uunet!sequent!rjk
Kelley, Robert sequent!rjk@uunet.UU.NET
Kern, Suzuko I. att!bcr!pyuxf!sik
Kingdon, Jim kingdon@wam.UMD.EDU
Kitchell, M. I. att!bcr!pyuxf!marsh
Klaffke, Bob BOB_KLAFFKE%UMDSCXA@xa.dsc.umich.edu
Knights, Ross gatech!mit-eddie!ileaf!io!gato!ross@cwjcc.INS.CWRU.Edu
Koch, C. Harald chk@alias
Kohut, R. att!bcr!pyuxf!rko
Krafft, Dean dean@cs.cornell.edu
Kupersmith, Paul att!bcr!pyuxf!pak2
Kwan, Rick rkwan@Sun.COM
Lee, Linda pyuxf!llee
Lemon, Ted mellon@decwrl.dec.com
Lohse, Mary Beth lohse@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu
Look, Stephen look@uicsrd.csrd.uiuc.edu
Lupin, Ed texbell!swbatl!weitek!bogart.weitek.COM!lupin
Madsen, Dave vijit!root@gargoyle.uchicago.edu
Magnell, David H. uunet!uunet!mrmarx!dave
Mahler, Mike cloud9.stratus.com!mm
Mantick, Duane P wb9omc@ea.ecn.purdue.edu
Marden, R. A. att!bcr!pyuxd!rich2
Masco, Todd L. tm2b+@andrew.cmu.edu
Mathes, Chris metter!chris@uunet.uu.net
Matloob, T. H. att!bcr!pyuxf!thm
Maxwell, Sid smaxwell@decvax.dec.com
Mayhar, Frank frank@ladc.bull.com
McBurnett, Roe D. att!bcr!nvuxr!rdm2
McCarthy, John MCCARTHY%BCVMCMS.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu
Midkiff, Sam midkiff@uicsrd.csrd.uiuc.edu
Millham, Brian drutx!review
Miya, Eugene eugene@eos.arc.nasa.gov
Moews, David moews@bosco.Berkeley.EDU
Morrison, Karson att!bcr!pyuxf!kwm
Morton, John jmorton@euler.Berkeley.EDU
Mosher, Steve smosher@East.Sun.COM
Moynihan, Bob moynihan_r@apollo.com
Myers, Bob hp-lsd!hpfcla!hpfcre!hpfcre!myers
O'Brien, Mark USER=HCFB@ub.cc.umich.edu
O'Neill, Paul pvo3366@oce.orst.edu
Oltz, Mike MYK@CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu
Osborne, Joshua stripes@mordor.eng.umd.edu
Paddock, Gregory ssc-vax!gregp@beaver.cs.washington.edu
Paxinos, Garry M. pax@megasys.com
Pelletier, S. B. att!bcr!pyuxf!sbp
Pendleton, Bob utah-cs!esunix!chameleon!bpendlet
Picard, Ronald V picard@caen.engin.umich.edu
Poly, Guy guy@cadnetix.COM
Price, Douglas H dhp@ihlpa.att.com
Purdy, Glen utah-cs!hplabs!hpcea!hpfcla!hp-pcd!hplsla!glenp
Reich, Chuck CRR100%PSUVM.BITNET@CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu
Remien, Dave uunet!pmafire!dave
Rigney, Carl amdcad!cdr
Rogers, Brynn rogers@src.honeywell.com
Rohulich, John att!ncr-sd!ncrcam!hrdwre.Cambridge.NCR.COM!rohulich
Ruff, Ritchey ruffwork@tesla.CS.ORST.EDU
Russotto, Matthew T. russotto@mordor.eng.umd.edu
Scott, Eric P. eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU
Sestrich, Joe linus!sestrich%sherman.Alliant.COM
shaffer, d.w. pyuxf!daves
Shamash, Ari shamash@cs.columbia.edu
Simicich, Nicholas J. uunet!scifi!njs
Smith, Larry lsmith@apollo.com
Spinalla, Ed att!bcr!pyuxf!ejs
Stansbury, Steve sos@chainsaw.dataio.Data-IO.COM
Stephan, Paul H. uunet!telxon!pauls
Stevens-Shclick, John GAMES@MAVEN.ACS.WASHINGTON.EDU
Stump, Kean kean@nyssa.CS.ORST.EDU
Swift, Theodore John sun!hplabs!well!tswift
Tapper, Mark uw-beaver!polari!markt
Taylor, Matt hp-lsd!frisbee!matt
Taylor, Tom tomas@apple.com
Tidrick, Bob bobt%pogo.wv.tek.com@RELAY.CS.NET
Tilenius, Eric W. EWTILENI@pucc.Princeton.EDU
Titus, Matt dcdwest!titus@ucsd.edu
Traina, Paul pst@anise.acc.com
Trinterud, John R. jrt@pbhyf.PacBell.COM
Tuel, Cliff ctuel@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU
Vielmetti, Edward emv@math.lsa.umich.edu
VomLehn, David M halley!tzone!vomlehn@cs.utexas.edu
Wallace, Evan wallace@cme.nist.gov
Wayne, Rick wayne@math.wisc.edu
Wehr, Bruce fmeed1!wehr@sharkey.cc.umich.edu
weich, a. j. aaraya@emx.utexas.edu
Wende, Mike wende@hpspkld.hp.com
Wexelblat, David E mtgzx!dwex
Wilkins, Mark R. wilkins@jarthur.Claremont.edu
Wong, Bradley uunet!mdcsc!bdw
Wood, Gregory gregwood@BRL.MIL
Wyncott, George F. WYNCOTT@VM.CC.PURDUE.EDU
Yee, Peter E. yee@trident.arc.nasa.gov
Yount, Marvin gtephx!yountm
5 Invalid votes:
NO(Early): Olson, Arthur David elsie!ado@nih-csl.dcrt.nih.gov
YES(Proxy): Batinic, Ivan ivan@megatest.UUCP
YES(Early): Hoover, Ken consp21@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu
YES(Early): O'Neal, Miles gatech!emory!stiatl!meo@cwjcc.INS.CWRU.Edu
YES(Explc): Tuel, Cliff ctuel@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU
R. Michael Jungclas UUCP: att!ihlpb!rjungcla
AT&T Bell Labs - Naperville, IL. Internet: rjungcla@ihlpb.att.com